Tuesday, October 26, 2004

...Ad Infinitum

Robbie commented on my last entry:  "Your counter-arguments are so well thought out and expressed so succinctly, I am amazed that any of them have the cajones to respond to you."
Ah, but respond they do.  Deeper and deeper into the Republican spin.  In fact, I think there are arguments here that even the official Republican Spin Machine would find novel...

The world and the Iraq's are better off with out Sadaam in power.

Watch the news. Look at the pictures of the Iraqi dead. Look at the videos of people in orange jumpsuits begging for their lives. (Think about it for a minute...what did they have to do to those people to get them to beg like dogs for the video cameras? Would you, or your wife, or your son, perform like that for your kidnappers, unless you had been tortured to insensibility?) Had we not attacked Iraq, these things would NOT be happening.

Let me give you an analogy. The Japanese attacked us at Pearl Harbor but yet we declared war on Germany. With what your saying we should have never went to war against Hitler and thousands of life's would have been spared and the people of France would be speaking German today.

The actual sequence of events here was that we declared war on Japan because of the Pearl Harbor attack, and Germany, being Japan's ally, then declared war on us.
Hitler and Sadaam Hussein have absolutely nothing to do with each other. By the time we got around to Hitler, he had most of continental Europe under his thumb and was going after Great Britain. He had powerful, ruthless allies in the Japanese. Nothing Sadaam had or did even approaches Hitler's power or evil. It's been sixty years since Hitler's demise, and we still use him as the yardstick by which we measure the evil of any head of state. And if we want to completely demonize someone, we say how much like Hitler he is. I doubt that, sixty years from now, or even six, anyone is going to use Sadaam in the same way.

Your hate for George Bush clouds your thinking,Like I sent to you earlier its OK when a Democrat goes to war but wrong when a Republican goes to war. A passive approach to terrorism will put us back in those Clinton years.

Bill Clinton was not passive. I remember vividly, during his second administration, when things were getting hot and heavy with the scandal and impeachment issues, that every time Clinton proposed military response to anything, the "other side" accused him of trying to start a war in order to take the focus off the Monica problem. You can't have it both ways, though I know Mr. Clinton's critics were famous for that...

Mr. Clinton did NOT wage a pre-emptive war in Bosnia. He lent U.S. backing, power and credibility to the forces that were fighting the ethnic cleansing in the region. That is a far, far cry from what Mr. Bush has done in Iraq. If you want to talk about comparing apples and oranges, this would be an example of exactly that.

I'll say it again...if you think Mr. Bush has done a good job, vote for him. It's not that I hate George Bush. I'm sure he's a perfectly nice man. I hate what he has done. I don't have to arm myself with anyone's political spin to make my personal judgment of his performance in office, and find him sadly and direly wanting.

You;ve already voted, now let the rest us have a chance

I've never once told you how to vote. In fact I've repeatedly told you to cast your vote for President Bush if he is your choice. Arguably half the people in the country see things the way you do, and are going to vote for Mr. Bush. I can't stop them. I know it's useless to try.

But I have felt compelled to rebut some of the Republican spin included in your emails, if only to point it out as exactly that---spin. Politics. "Stretching the truth." Making the details of any situation line up to reflect badly upon your opponent and favorably upon you. Both parties

are guilty of this. It's what politics are all about in this day and age, and I hate it. I hate that our marvelous, precious right to vote in this country is poisoned by this malicious bull****. I hate that the American public responds so readily to it. I hate that we, the citizens of the United States of America, are SO ready to fight each other that we will beat each other over the heads with everything from politics, to religion, to what we ate for breakfast this morning.

Let's start with 1998 Desert Fox, a Mr Bill offensive to rid Saddam of his WMDs The press played it to get the focus off of Monica ( which our President stated "oral sex isn't really sex" explain that one to my then 12 year old boy)

If President Clinton had had his way, none of this would ever have been made public. It was the Republicans that endlessly dug and dug until they dug it up, and the press that paraded it so relentlessly in front of the public. I really don't think you can blame Mr. Clinton for that.

You will also note that I refer to the president as "Mr. Bush" "President Bush" or at my most disrespectful, "Bush." I believe that the office of president deserves respect. No matter who is in it. Or was in it.


Now lets talk about the UN and Bosina and the forces that Clinton lead into there. What is there Exit stratogy. Oh thats right, there isn't any that's why were still there. Lets look at the UN and the Exit stratogy in Korea. Oh thats right there isn't any where still there. At least we have one in Iraq. Get them a Democracy retrain there military so they can defend themsellves and the we can leave. Send in the UN as Kerry wants and we have Bosina and Korea all over again.

Exit strategy? Exit strategy? "Get them a Democracy?" You can't "get" someone a democracy. One of the fundamental rights of any country is to choose its own form of government. What would be our reaction if a foreign power invaded us in order to "get" us whatever form of government they believed in?

"Retrain their military?" Well, that's obviously going very well, judging by the field full of dead bodies the other day.

Your reasoning WAY oversimplifies the situation. Assuming the administration's exit strategy DOES include "getting them a democracy and retraining their military," at the rate it's going, this could take years. Decades. And WAY more people than the administration currently has invested in Iraq. Draft, anyone?

You got to be kidding on the draft issue. It was a democrate in the Senate that proposed a draft. The Iraqies will be voting for the first time in Jan. The demoracy is almost there. Just like John Kerry your always looking at the negative instead of the good things that are going on. Like you said if you think John Kerry can do a better job vote for him.

And so I will.


  1. Lisa-
    So nice to see you write your intelligent rebuttals on todays political issues. I couldn't agree with you more! I was also not happy to see others refferring to President Clinton as "Mr. Bill". When will people ever learn respect in this country? Probably never and I give up trying. I can only do what I do. I also liked the comments on Bosnia, Korea and the UN. Does this "person" ever read reports or listen? You are so right about the "democracy" issue and how it's NOT working in Iraq. I am personally getting quite sick of hearing Bush talk about it, praising his administration on it. The democracy issues will be fought over for many years to come in Iraq, along with a death toll count in the thousands if not more. It's heartbreaking that some of the death toll will be from our troops.

    I also voted for Kerry and stand strong in my decision.


  2. I admire your persistence.  I can't keep the energy up enough to show the inaccuracies of thought among some Republicans.

  3. Your detractors certainly are challenged in the "writing" department aren't they?    

  4. Terrific entry. I'm afraid too for us all.

  5. Well I have to disagree with you on one thing Lisa.  Bush is not a “good” man.  No “good” man would kill humans unnecessarily.  No “good” man would dehumanize an entire nation to avenge his father.  Bush is not some poor little man trapped and encircled with his hands tied.  He is leading the pack, he is calling the shots.  If he is not, it is only because he is his father’s mouthpiece.  In every way, HE is responsible and needs to be held accountable for the murders, THE MURDERS, and the human degradation that has happened on his watch.  George Bush is evil!

  6. wow this is one fantastic journal. Good for you!

  7. Hee hee hee. You used a masked vulgarity in your entry. I get tired of arguing with those who have baseless arguments. It's less frustrating arguing with a wall.

    I thought I'd share a joke with you, to lighten the mood.

    An American tourist went into a restaurant in Mexico for dinner, and asked to be served the specialty of the house. When the dish arrived, he asked what kind of meat it contained. 'Sir, these are the cajones,' the waiter replied. 'The what, you say?' exclaimed the tourist. 'They are testicles of the bull killed in the ring today,' explained the waiter. The tourist gulped, but tasted the dish anyway, and found it delicious. Returning the following evening, he asked for the same dish. After he finished the meal,the tourist commented to the waiter: 'Today's cajones are much smaller than the ones I had yesterday.' 'True, sir,' said the waiter, 'you see the bull does not always lose...'

    Hmm...Here's hoping the Matador loses on Nov 2nd!

    ;-) ---Robbie

  8. After reading many of your comments, I tried to visit the Bush website.  Only I found it blocked.  Apparently all visitors from outside of the US are blocked!  Hmmmm!



  9. I think that many ppl like to read their own meanings into things. I have read your comments as well as his and I think that he is seriously comparing apples to oranges. I have watched Bush lie lie lie. He says one thing and then denies he said it later. I think that is only because he realizes how messed up his reasoning is. This man lied on why to go after Sadam and detered the focus from him capturing Bin Laden to getting Sadam. On one of the debates Bush denied saying that he wasn't worried about Bin Laden but I have the orginal press conference when he said it. Oh well all you can do is cast your vote.


  10. Oh I know... I was cracking up at all the conservatives who've found your journal and left their comments.  How did they know?  

    Anyway, you're preaching to the choir with me. ;-)  And as for telling people how to vote, I'm all for doing exactly that.  lol  I don't see anything with encouraging people to vote for the candidate I support, especially since half the people I know irl are just voting without giving it much thought.